DSW or PhD? How Dr. Lena Green Found Her Path

Lena Green headshot

A decade ago, Lena Green, DSW ’18, was stunned when her application to a social work PhD program was rejected. She had more than ten years of direct practice and management experience as a clinical social worker, psychotherapist, non-profit founder and government health and human services leader. “I had real world experience that I thought would make me competitive. I had fantastic letters of recommendation from both social work practitioners and PhDs,” she said. “When I didn’t get in I was shocked.”

Dr. Green had always wanted to earn her doctorate with the aim of teaching, supervising and developing evidence-based interventions and programs. She was particularly excited about serving the pregnant and parenting populations she worked with, especially fathers. “There wasn’t a lot of research around fatherhood or a lot of evidence-based treatments,” she explained. “I wanted to fill that gap.” 

As it turned out Dr. Green’s rejection from that PhD program was a blessing in disguise. Otherwise, she might never have learned that the Doctorate in Clinical Social Work (DSW) was the more appropriate doctoral degree for her ambitions. As the mental health service nonprofit organization leader put it, “sometimes a setback is a setup for something greater.”

How to Decide for Yourself

Dr. Green urges MSWs thinking about pursuing a doctoral degree to ask themselves questions including:

  • Am I more interested in clinical practice and leadership or program evaluation and research?
  • Am I stronger in hands-on practice or analytic skills?
  • Do I want to directly apply my new knowledge or produce findings that will be applied by others?

If you answer the former to each question, said Dr. Green, you will likely find the DSW a more rewarding degree.

Focusing on Practice vs. Research

When Dr. Green inquired about her rejection, university officials cited her heavy clinical background and lack of research experience. Since developing research skills is a key facet of earning a PhD, she was surprised that her inexperience was held against her. She decided to take a year to regroup before reapplying to that program as well as others. 

In Spring of 2015, Dr. Green learned that NYU Silver, where she had earned her MSW, was launching a DSW program. Initially she wasn’t sure it would be right for her. “Then, as I looked into it further, I started to understand that the DSW is more clinically oriented than a PhD. It actually felt like a better fit for me.” 

Dr. Green learned that social work PhD programs focus on training students in research methods, concepts, and statistical analysis in preparation for careers as independent researchers, scholars, and educators. Students typically take two years of full-time coursework after which they spend the next two to three years conducting original research, writing and ultimately defending their dissertation.

In contrast, DSW programs focus on advanced theories and practice models, clinical research and policies that directly impact practice in preparation for leadership roles in academic and agency settings. Students typically take three years of coursework on a part-time basis, during which they develop and complete a culminating capstone project.

Clinical Associate Professor Kirk “Jae” James, Director of NYU Silver’s DSW Program, explained “The main difference between a DSW and a PhD is that a DSW is a practice degree. While most people who pursue a PhD want to build their research skills, most of those who seek a DSW are experienced clinicians who want to refine their practice skills through research and scholarship.”

Unique Features of a DSW Program

Dr. Green applied for and was accepted into NYU Silver’s inaugural DSW class. Once she began the program, she knew she had made the correct decision. The curriculum included classes in evidence-based practices, clinical theories, research, social policy, and leadership. 

As the program continued, she and her cohort began to work on their capstone projects, which, at Silver, require the development of two publishable papers and the presentation of one’s work at a professional conference. As she had always hoped to, Dr. Green focused on the understudied area of mental health among new and expectant fathers, and particularly paternal depression. “The thing that spoke to my heart the most,” said Dr. Green, “was the ability to engage in practice-informed research.”

In addition to referencing existing research and clinical theories, she drew insights from the fathers she regularly interviewed and conducted groups with as Administrative Director of Social Services for the New York City Human Resources Administration (HRA) and Founder/Director of the Akira Center, a Harlem non-profit focused on fatherhood. “Hearing fathers’ own testimonies, understanding their experiences, problem solving around them and being able to codify them in a way that advanced knowledge in the field really honored their stories,” said Dr. Green.

Opening Doors

The DSW program also enabled Dr. Green to hone her leadership skills. “The program taught me to stand firm, strong and confident in what I bring to leadership as a social worker. So many things have come to fruition for me because of that,” said Dr. Green, who was promoted to Deputy Director of HRA’s Office of Substance Use Policy, Planning, and Monitoring shortly before she graduated and has served as the Executive Director of Hope Center Harlem since 2020. 

“I would have never thought that I would be the executive director of a nonprofit organization,” she said. “I have had many options about the paths that my career could take and I’ve been moving forward ever since.” In addition to leading Hope Center Harlem, she is the clinical supervisor for 3rd and 4th year psychiatry residents from Mount Sinai Hospital who are doing their practicum in community psychiatry there. She also developed and teaches NYU Silver’s Post-Master’s Certificate Program in Sports Social Work and is one of the few social workers on the Scientific Programs Committee of the American Psychiatric Association, a national appointment. “It feels like this is just the beginning because my journey as a clinician and leader in the field is still evolving. I’ve been blown away with the things I’ve been able to accomplish since earning my DSW.”